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It is a simple problem that every card issuer has. You have issued a credit or debit card to a new customer, so how do you get them to actually use it? More than that, how do you encourage this customer to make this new card their primary payment card?

My next guest on the Fintech One-on-One podcast is Rory O’Reilly, the CEO and Co-Founder of Knot. He wrestled with this problem himself and decided to do something about it. His company has built API connectivity into most of the major merchants in this country, in a similar way Plaid built API connectivity into major banks. With this connectivity, any card issuer now has the capability to bring their card to the top of wallet.

In this podcast you will learn:

• The a-ha moment that led to the idea for Knot.
• Their target market.
• How their technology works.
• How the card issuers decide what merchants to feature on Knot.
• Why card issuers are so excited about this.
• How card issuers implement Knot.
• The benefits for merchants to work with Knot.
• How they are working with BaaS platforms.
• The key to their go-to-market strategy.
• How they charge the issuers for their service.
• How Rory thinks about digital wallets and how they can work with Knot.
• Why they have not put much effort into pay by bank.
• Where they are today in terms of scale.
• Their scale goal for the next four years.
• The types of new products they are working on.
• Rory’s vision for Knot.

Read a transcription of our conversation below.

FINTECH ONE-ON-ONE PODCAST NO. 488 – RORY O’REILLY

Peter Renton  00:01

Welcome to the Fintech One-on-One podcast. This is Peter Renton, Chairman and co-founder of Fintech Nexus. I’ve been doing this show since 2013, which makes this the longest-running one-on-one interview show in all of fintech. Thank you so much for joining me on this journey.

Peter Renton  00:27

Today on the show, I’m delighted to welcome Rory O’Reilly. He is the CEO and co-founder of Knot. Now Knot is a super instant company that they’re a new breed of fintech that haven’t been around very long, but they’re getting serious traction. So I wanted to get Rory on the show to talk about his company and the API connectivity they’ve built, really connecting merchants with users, and the card payment, that is sort of the center of it all. What they do, they make it easy when you open up a new bank account or credit card, they make it easy for you to update that card across the companies that you spend money with. Now, they work obviously, with the big ones, Amazon, Netflix, Uber, Spotify, all of the top 100 merchants right now and that list continues to grow. And what they do, they make it so that the card that you have just signed up for, you can update across all these merchants via API connectivity, very simply through one simple interface. It’s a really compelling proposition. And he talks about it in some depth. And obviously, we also talk about the potential other use cases, which I think are just super interesting. It was a fascinating discussion. Hope you enjoy the show.

Peter Renton  01:50

Welcome to the podcast, Rory.

Rory O’Reilly  01:52

Peter, thanks so much for having me, honored to be here.

Peter Renton  01:54

My pleasure. So let’s kick it off by giving the listeners a little bit of background about yourself. Why don’t you just tell us what you’ve done so far in your career to date, hitting some of the highlights.

Rory O’Reilly  02:08

Happy to do that. So I’m very blessed to have a brother named Kieran, we both were at Harvard a decade ago, we both dropped out, we moved to San Francisco, we made this website called GIFS.com. You might think of it as GIFS.com. But we say GIFs. Worked on that for a couple of years, then we made a crypto project. That was crazy. We ended up selling $80 million worth of Ethereum in a couple of months. So we had one out of 1000 Ethereum in the whole world. Worked again for three or four years. Then we made a debit card company called Millions where you could swipe your Millions Card and win up to a million dollars. And that became the largest fintech on TikTok and YouTube, and it was wildly unprofitable. And people did not want to add their card online because it was so annoying. Peter, I don’t know, have you ever switched banks before? Like had to switch?

Peter Renton  02:59

Well, I’ve never switched banks, I’ve added banks, but I’ve never actually done a complete switch because my history is too long now.

Rory O’Reilly  03:08

Exactly. It’s so annoying to update. And that’s why people weren’t using the millions card online. And then we pivoted the whole business to solve for that. And we call it Knot.

Peter Renton  03:15

Right. Okay. That was the aha moment, right? Maybe you can talk about what you saw, you pivoted the business. What was sort of the thinking there? And how are you going to make money?

Rory O’Reilly  03:28

Absolutely. A great question. So I’ll tell you a customer call I had, I was calling up a Million’s customer and I say Hey, I see that you spend in person with your Millions Card, why don’t you spend online? And they gave me a whole story about how long and hard it was. And I hung up the call, eventually, a little frustrated, this person’s crazy. They can’t update the card. It’s so easy, called up someone else, same story. And then I was like, That’s two. And then there was three and four. And then I looked at my own personal spend. And as the CEO of Millions at the time, I did not have my Millions Card on Amazon. And I said Holy smokes, this is a real problem that I’ve been oblivious to. We started to create Knot because there was not an API for it and we want to tie things together. And with Knot, it’s a little SDK, kind of similar to Plaid, and that it lives on card issuers, apps or websites. The consumer just chooses the merchant, they want to add their card to, they log in like they normally do, kind of like how you log into Plaid, and then boom, their card is instantly there. They don’t have to type any card number, expiration, CVV. The bank sends us all of that securely. And then we provision it via API to the merchant. And it took us a long time to build it out. It’s a very hard business. But the first time I used it, I knew right away, this is a game changer. And we still wanted to use it just within Millions. And a couple of our investors who are in the banking industry said Can I have that? Can I buy that? And we said no, this is our little baby. And then it was pretty apparent to us. This is a real business that is maybe more profitable than the unprofitable business we had and pivoted completely to Knot.

Peter Renton  05:03

Right, right. So who is the customer there? Is it the? Is it the bank, the card, credit card company, the neo bank, or whatever that is wanting to get that? Have their card be added in an easier way? Is that how you work?

Rory O’Reilly  05:20

Exactly. So our customers are the card issuers, and they provide it for free to their consumers. So Bilt, the card for renters to earn rewards, went live roughly a month ago for 100% of their users. Bilt pays us. And if you’re a Bilt member, you get to provision your card right away for free in seconds with Knot. And that’s the rough business model in a nutshell.

Peter Renton  05:43

Okay, so let’s just go through that, like you’ve got your Bilt card, you have your Bilt login, obviously Bilt, knows all your details, you just have to do your login to Bilt. And let’s just say like Amazon, you used Amazon, as example, right? And just explain kind of how it works. Like, do you have write access to their Amazon account once they have logged into Amazon? Like how does it work?

Rory O’Reilly  06:06

Yeah, great question. It works exactly like that, essentially, exactly how you described it. We figure out all the APIs for how to add cards at all of these merchants. It’s like digging through the mud. You know figuring out these API endpoints, it’s not easy. But the simple way of thinking about it is when me as a consumer, outside of being the Knot CEO, when I click Login, when I click Add Card on a website, I’m not just clicking a yellow button. Clearly, it’s connected with an API on the back end. Our team of 30 plus engineers figure out what those APIs are, the correct headers, parameters, et cetera, that they are supposed to receive. And then we send them those session datas to kind of go through the flow. So it’s exactly as you’re describing, we have write access, because we figure out all the API endpoints for these merchants. And we update the card in real time in seconds using the merchants APIs.

Peter Renton  06:59

Right. Like the Bilt consumer or whoever it is, they go through Amazon, they have to do this one by one, right. You can’t, there’s no universal login yet. Like how many of the big merchants can you do? And like how, what’s typical as far as what is Bilt wanna present? I mean obviously if you present 20, it’s probably, that’s probably too many, right? I mean, what’s the sweet spot?

Rory O’Reilly  07:20

Yeah. So right now we have over 100 merchants that we’ve integrated with, and it’s really the top 100. So Amazon sort of down to call it Best Buy or something. But it’s really, your spend is very much in categories, it’s online shopping, big box retail, then your phone, then your food delivery, your ride share, your streaming services, that’s how consumers kind of break down their spend. What we’ve actually seen is a very strong correlation with the longer list of merchants you show, the higher number of switches you get. By switching I mean someone adding their card. So what I could say right now, publicly is that Bilt does have 20 or so on their card page where you can click and list. And some of our customers have 70 or so that they show. And some of our customers are really smart. And everyone, all of them are smart, but some of them have a really unique case. All of them are smart.

Peter Renton  08:14

Of course they are.

Rory O’Reilly  08:14

Exactly. Some of them have a really unique use case where they use their bank connectivity data, like let’s say Plaid, who is also an investor in Knot. Someone’s launching soon where they will take their Plaid data, and they will put it, they’ll give it to Knot, and we will help shape the merchants we show so that it’s actually related to the individual. So we can see where you spent on your old card and then say this is leakage, you should be spending it on your new card. So that customer is going to go live with that in a month or so because of the Plaid partnership. And then Peter, one thing I don’t want to forget is you mentioned there’s no universal login. But at Knot, we always want to out innovate ourselves. So we’re partnering with a couple of your favorite password managers. And you will be able to log in with your password manager and instantly give credentialed access to Knot for everything. We are so excited about that. It’s kind of a pre-release, you know, so a little bit of a secret, but you guys will likely see that by the end of the quarter.

Peter Renton  09:15

Okay, but that’s I really like that idea, though. Because why present someone with a DoorDash login, for example, if they never have ordered on DoorDash. That’s just, that’s a bad user experience. So eventually, I can see like the Plaid connectivity is really important there, because then you can just get like, what are you looking at like the last three months of data there to sort of present who they’re using most?

Rory O’Reilly  09:38

I don’t really know what the level of data is that we get. If it’s three months or two years, it might depend on how the card issuer is implemented because ultimately the card issuers pay Plaid for pulling that transaction data or Finicity, MX, whoever they’re using. So Plaid and that card issuer have that relationship, we get a nice little referral bonus. But what we see is that the card issuers can always figure out the correct data, even if they just pull the past one month. That’s enough to see the recurring subscriptions because all you need is one month really to recognize what the merchants are. So we’ve already built that integration out with Plaid and a card issuer is going live with it, I believe in the next four weeks.

Peter Renton  10:16

Right. And is that going to become standard in your, your rollout of new to new customers?

Rory O’Reilly  10:21

I’d like to kind of maintain a pulse and see what the conversion rate looks like. My assumption is that the conversion rate will be higher, because it’s (garbled). Exactly, I would expect that to because it’s related to the user. But if the conversion rate is lower,we’re not going to suggest it. And then ultimately, it’s up to the card issuer at the end of the day. If they have that data, if they have that relationship with the bank connectivity folks, we’re happy to build those connections, like we did with Plaid, to make it easier. Our one goal is to get conversions for your card no matter what. So if it works, we’re going to be pushing it like hotcakes. And if it doesn’t work, we won’t tell a soul about it.

Peter Renton  10:58

Well, it’s out now. But anyway, that’s really interesting. I’m curious that when you’re talking with card issuers, to me, this is a really important issue for them. Because like, once you get person to sign up, they’ve gotta use, and I’ve got a bunch of fintech accounts or debit cards, I’ve never used them once. And I keep getting emails and there’s that sort of window. When you’re having conversations with these issuers, to me it’s a no brainer, right? Of course, you’ve got to make it as easy as possible. What are those conversations like? Do people say to you, No, we don’t need anything like this, our customers are so great, they just sign up anyway. What is the pushback you get?

Rory O’Reilly  11:40

We’ve never heard that. Usually people are jumping out of their chairs. If you get with the right ICP, you know the right person at that company that owns the P&L for the card business, they go crazy for it. Because for cards, there’s retention activation, you really nailed it, there’s a sweet spot where your level of intent is so high. And if you don’t get them in the first two weeks, you’re really not going to get them. Let’s be honest, no one’s going to come back and boomerang back. The card business is the only product that I think in the whole world that when you buy or get a new one, you can’t instantly rip and replace it. When I get a new phone. I’m immediately transferring my contacts. And I mean, immediately. I’m calling up people, I’m taking photos, look at what great camera this is look at this, immediately. When I get a new laptop, immediately I opened it up I’m back to it. So I get a candy bar, I immediately consume it, etc. But when you get a card, you’ve got this recurring kind of negative behavior, and that you’re still using the old card because it’s entrenched in your lifestyle. It’s the one product you can’t rip and replace, from my perspective. So when you get with the right stakeholder in the company, they’re like, How can I do this? How much does it cost? When can I implement it? The biggest question is, what does their roadmap look like? We’re in diligence with five out of the top 10 banks. And their roadmaps oftentimes are out until the end of the year. So it’s really finding the right slot when they’ve got dev time where they can, when they can get you through InfoSec, etc. And those long sales cycles, they’re just long. But when you get with the right person, and they really understand what you’re doing, and how it can help benefit them and consumers, they’re jumping for joy for it.

Peter Renton  13:15

Right, right. So let’s just take us through that. How do you implement Knots? I mean, what’s the lift from the card issuer side?

Rory O’Reilly  13:24

So you know what, I’m not sure if I could say this publicly. But by the time that this comes out, I bet I will be able to. We just did a study with MasterCard. And we are the only company that they’ve ever done dogfooding for and that they implemented our API. MasterCard has a fake bank, that’s actually a real bank. It has a real BIN, real everything. It’s called Dog Food Bank. I’m not just kidding.

Peter Renton  13:51

I was wondering where we were going with that.

Rory O’Reilly  13:53

I’m not even joking. It’s called Dog Food Bank. And they implemented our API and rhetorical question, how long do you think it took them to implement it? 30 calendar days, 21 business days. So lift. It’s quite simple. And this is MasterCard implementing Knot. We’ve seen smaller challenger banks implement in a weekend. We’re very lucky that our head of Solutions Engineering was the first Solutions Engineer at Plaid. And the first at Middesk. His name is Edwin Chu. He’s phenomenal. And he is a large reason why we’re able to have such great integration times and docs that people understand and really don’t have that many questions about.

Peter Renton  14:33

Okay. Okay, so let’s switch gears a little bit, what’s in it for the merchant? What’s in it for Amazon or DoorDash? Or Netflix or whatever? You’ve got the APIs from these companies. But is there a benefit for these big companies to work with Knot?

Rory O’Reilly  14:50

Absolutely, great question. So let’s take Netflix’s business for instance. Their business is quite simple. They want more people to use Netflix and they want less people to churn. One reason why people churn is because their payment information didn’t work. So let’s say you switched banks and you moved all your money, and Netflix is still trying to pull money from your old bank. Not going to work. Netflix is going to have an insufficient funds fee, they’re going to have involuntary churn because they’re trying to pull someone who switched their bank. And ultimately, Netflix will lose a customer in that instance, maybe not forever. But maybe for a couple of months. The merchants, the largest merchants actually pay Visa and MasterCard to update cards for lost, stolen and reissue. They’re paying anywhere from a quarter to a dime for this. So the merchants are already paying to maintain proper card because they don’t want involuntary churn and they don’t want abandoned carts. When someone goes to the merchant, tries to checkout, it doesn’t work. And then they’re like, I didn’t even want that thing anyway. Happens 8% of the time when your card doesn’t work. So the merchants, with Knot at least, they’re getting a value added service for free. They’re maintaining the proper card on file for free. And they’re kind of pushing consumer loyalty, because now you can still be on your Netflix, even if you switched banks, and you’re not having that gap of spend and gap of loyalty and retention. So the merchants, at least when we talk with them, they’re two thumbs up. We do something for free for them right now, and we maintain the proper card and make sure their business is still healthy.

Peter Renton  16:17

Right, right, right. And so I presume you’re able to work with debit cards, credit cards, it doesn’t, does it really matter about the type of card that you’re trying to provision here?

Rory O’Reilly  16:28

Doesn’t matter at all. Visa, MasterCard, Amex, anything with a PAN, we can provision it to the merchant.

Peter Renton  16:34

Okay. And then, what about, I was reading on your website, you also working with BaaS platforms, or banking as a service platforms. What’s going on there?

Rory O’Reilly  16:43

So our kind of key prerogative is to make it as easy as possible for card issuers to implement Knot and for consumers to use it. And the BaaS platforms are great, because they’re kind of a one stop shop for card issuers to implement new products, etc. The other part of our business is grabbing PAN, expiration, CVV, name, address, phone number, etc, securely. And in most instances, card issuers don’t have access to the PAN, CVV expiration, you know this PCI type of data, whereas the BasS provider does. So in many instances, we will partner with a BasS provider to supplement that data and send it to us securely rather than putting the onus on the card issuer. So one that we’re really proud about that’s been in the news recently, is Unit and they’re actually a really great team to work with. They’ve been wonderful, nothing but good things to say about them. And our card issuers who have launched with Unit have been able to get set up in record time. So we work with anyone and everyone, including BasS providers just to make it easy for card issuers to get set up with Knot.

Peter Renton  17:44

Okay, so then how are you getting the word out about Knot? I mean you, like you’re obviously doing podcasts like this. I’ve also seen the name around, and you’ve got some pretty heavy hitters that have backed you guys, or at least talk about you guys in a positive way. But I’d, I’d love to kind of get the real kind of go to market strategy. How are you doing that?

Rory O’Reilly  18:06

Well, you’re right, we got really lucky to have some amazing folks on the cap table who have been game changing for the business. Whether it’s Ken Chenault, or Dan Schulman or Amex or Plaid or Nava who lead our A, or Jason Mikula, or Alex Johnson. I mean, really, I could go on and on, Jonathan (garbled).  Our friends have been the greatest champions we could ever ask for. And as you know, the community is so small, but our go to market strategy, simply is to build a great product. Kind of like you mentioned in the beginning, this is such a consumer pain point. You’ve never switched banks, because you’re so entrenched in your your spend. This is such a bank pain point. You know Amex will pay me as a consumer $350 if I refer you. And it’s a real pain point for the banks as well. And obviously it is for merchants, as we discussed. So we are prospective, if we build a great product, people will come. And if we put a little word out that, hey, this is great, and people enjoy it, we think that they’ll come even faster. And what we’ve seen is that the banking industry is so small. So as soon as someone launches with Knot, everyone immediately uses it, sees it, because all of the small challenger banks and large challenger banks, they’re testing everyone else’s app to see the onboarding flows. So when they see Knot, they say ah, I need that. I need to be on parity, I need to make it as easy as possible to add this card in that limited window. So the growth has been fantastic. We just put a chart out on LinkedIn last month of our growth and it looks like the typical hockey stick. This month is three times larger than that. It’s like every month another card issuer, a large one goes live, and the growth just in this month triples, and then another one goes live and increases. So go to market strategy, build a great product and make sure it’s implemented in the right spaces.

Peter Renton  19:50

Is it like a SaaS fee? Is this a monthly fee? Are you charging a combination of like a per account fee on top of that, I mean what do you do?

Rory O’Reilly  20:00

Yeah, it’s usually a combination. So there’s per switch, monthly minimums, some license fees, some implementation fees, depending on how much work is kind of required in the relationship. If there’s large volume, that’s a lower per switch fee, if there’s low volume that’s higher per switch fee, very similar to Plaid model in many respects. And then per switch is just per merchant. So Amazon is one unit of spend, Netflix is another unit, etc.

Peter Renton  20:23

Gotcha, gotcha. I’m curious about the digital wallets, like the Apple wallet, Google Wallets, and Samsung Pay and all those. That seems to me, you know, it’s obviously outside of what you guys are doing. How do you kind of think about the big digital wallets at Knot?

Rory O’Reilly  20:44

I think about the wallets similar to the way we think about merchants. They’re another avenue where consumers want to push their card to. And it’s our job to just make it easy for your card to be used, whether it’s on Apple Pay, or Shopify or, PayPal checkout, whatever it might be, we just want to provision your card to the right avenue for a consumer to actually use it. So I love them, I think that they’re great. You know, PayPal has obviously been grinding with PayPal checkout for 20 plus years, essentially. And their market penetration is, you know, let’s call it like low medium double digits, which is great. When there are millions of merchants and your penetration is anywhere in the double digits, you’re doing phenomenally. But in terms of competitors, we don’t look at Checkouts as competitors at all, we really look at them as a great distribution channel to get the card on file and hopefully used in more places. So we’re starting to actually integrate them as merchants. So you’ll see Amazon, you’ll see PayPal, Checkout, hopefully, one day, you’ll see etc, etc. Just these pay options.

Peter Renton  21:47

Gotcha, gotcha. What about pay by bank? You know, there’s obviously companies that are moving in that space, I think Plaid has an agreement with Adyen on some of that stuff. How are you working in that area?

Rory O’Reilly  22:02

Pay by bank is really interesting. We’ve had some of our customers broach the subject, but then when push comes to shove, the card issuers have never particularly wanted to implement it, because it changes the dynamic of the revenue model. So clearly, the interchange and etc. So when we started building some pay by ACH and pay by bank, essentially, the customers didn’t jump towards it. So we haven’t invested a lot of resources in that department. We’re very customer led in what we build, and if our customers decide that pay by bank is the solution they want, then we will build that connectivity. In terms of our infrastructure, logging into the merchant is so hard already, that we already have, let’s call it 85% of infrastructure necessary for just immediately doing pay by bank. So we’re gonna bide our time until our current customers see a need for it. And then when they need it. We’ll have it ready for them.

Peter Renton  22:55

That makes sense. You talked about the hockey stick growth. Are there any are there any numbers you can share publicly about where you are today as far as scale goes?

Rory O’Reilly  23:04

Yeah, 100%. There’s, there’s one number it’s kind of a non number in a way. But we internally think that we are doing one out of 650 net new cards in America. So roughly I guess, point, I don’t want to do the math, ’cause I know I’m gonna be wrong. Point, one, five, something like that.

Peter Renton  23:25

Yeah. Something like that.

Rory O’Reilly  23:26

Something like that.

Peter Renton  23:27

And I presume you have a, you have a number in mind where you want to get to right?

Rory O’Reilly  23:32

Yeah, we’d like to get to, I think that we can get to around 30% within the next four years. And, you know, we’ve got a lot of large banks in due diligence with us. And by this time next year, I think that we will be in the single digit percentages, you’re not going to see all of the banks launch by this time next year. I think we’ll be in the single digit percentages, almost certainly. And then within three or four years, I have no doubt that we will be in the low double digits, but our aspirations are to be around 30%.

Peter Renton  24:02

Well that would be a serious business right there. I’m curious about, you’ve got this product that really is working well, solving a pain point that’s very specific. But what other features are you adding here? Or can you add? I mean, it feels like it’s, it’s a binary thing. You’ve created the product. You can iterate on it to make it more user friendly. But what other features are you looking at adding?

Rory O’Reilly  24:29

Great question. So this might be, this might be a really good question in a couple of months when we release a suite of new products. I’ll give you a little bit of a of a teaser, if you will. We think of ourselves very similarly to Plaid. Plaid is not just auth it’s also identity, it’s also transaction, it’s also fraud. Now they’re also KYC, right? The list goes on and on. They have connected with banks and they utilize that data and dozens of different ways. We connect with the merchant and right now we do card switch, and that’s what everyone has seen. But over the past year, past year and a half, we’ve been building five distinct new product lines, that all necessitate logging into the merchant, maintaining a connection, and then doing something on the user’s behalf. So one that I can say, that is likely rolling out this quarter is subscription manager. And this one, you’ve seen products that look like subscription management before, where you can cancel. With ours, you’ll be able to cancel, pause, add new users, etc. Everything you could normally do on the Netflix interface, but now you’re doing it without the GUI via API via Knot. So we’re really excited about that one, every other subscription manager, it’s kind of it really humans in the background, emailing on your behalf, et cetera, it takes 14 days to close the account. For us, it’s 20 seconds, we hit the API, cancel this account, pause this account, etc. So that one is one that we’re really excited about, and we’ve got some great partners who are launching with that one, likely by the end of the quarter.

Peter Renton  25:55

That is another problem that is unsolved. I know Alex Johnson has written about that a bit. And would I know he’s a supporter of yours, and I’m sure he would love to see a great product in that area.

Rory O’Reilly  26:07

Yeah, he’s wonderful.

Peter Renton  26:08

Okay, then, final question, as you kind of, I’d like you to take a step back before you answer this and just sort of say, what’s the vision for Knot? I mean, where are you going with this? Where do you think you’ll be in five or 10 years? I mean, maybe Plaid will just buy you, but where do you think you will be if you are an independent company in five or 10 years?

Rory O’Reilly  26:29

You know what, I’m sitting down, so I’ll lean back, instead of taking a step back. In five years, I think that we might look very similar to Plaid. I do think that there is a real world where we could have a Plaid like outcome, Plaid connects to the banks, and there’s, let’s say, 4600 banks in America, there are millions of merchants. And there are hundreds of things you could do on the merchants, much more in some ways than what you can do relate it to banks, you could buy things, cancel things, you could change things, you could gather intel information, so many different things you could do at merchants. So our goal is to be the merchant connectivity layer, connects to the merchant, do something on the user’s behalf. And I think that that can take us five years into the future. Maybe we’re similar to Plaid, and maybe we have a real ecosystem, maybe we are a real ecosystem player. And maybe there are hundreds, if not 1000s of businesses built on top of Knot and built on top of some of the new products that we’re launching soon.

Peter Renton  27:28

Right. What do you call? The merchant intelligence layer? Or what was it?

Rory O’Reilly  27:32

I like that. I was saying merchant connectivity layer, but merchant intelligence layer, I like that.

Peter Renton  27:38

You can see all the data there that is, that you’re going to have I mean, that’s that’s going to be valuable in and of itself, which a lot of people will probably pay you for. But anyway, we’ll have to leave it there. Rory, really great to chat with you today and really interesting learning about what you’re doing, and best of luck.

Rory O’Reilly  27:55

Peter, it’s been a great pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast.

Peter Renton  28:00

Well I hope you enjoyed the show. Thank you so much for listening. Please go ahead and give the show a review on the podcast platform of your choice and go tell your friends and colleagues about it. Anyway, on that note, I will sign off. I very much appreciate you listening, and I’ll catch you next time. Bye.